TCLA: When you attended Santa Monica High School, did adults treat all students pretty much the same?

Oscar de la Torre: No. The school was geared towards students who were high-achievers. Low-achievers and students in the middle didn’t get much attention. Students who had behavioral problems, or had other difficulties were shipped out to the continuation school. The kinds of services you received and the quality of those services depended on your race or whether your parents were able to advocate for you.

The majority of teachers, even Latino teachers, didn’t understand how to integrate culturally relevant curricula into their lesson plans because they were trained in the 1960s or even the 1950s. Younger teachers were more creative in including our cultural diversity on campus. But it was rare when it happened.

TCLA: You are bilingual. Was this a factor in your schooling?

OT: Not really. I never had a teacher tell me that because I know English and Spanish, I’m smart. No one ever valued the skill I have as a bilingual person. No one ever told me, this is one day going to help you get a good job. It was never seen as a transferable skill or as a skill that should be valued.

TCLA: Did issues of gender equity arise when you were in school?

OT: The students were the ones that brought up a lot of issues. "Masculinity" was one of the four concepts on the school seal. You still see that seal on the Greek theater with the word "masculinity" on it. It may have been done in the 1930s, or something like that. The student government that I was involved with changed the word masculinity to maturity.

TCLA: Was it common for students to lead the charge for equity?

OT: Most of the progressive things that happened came from the students. It was rare to hear something radical, or progressive or left of political center, coming from faculty. Even if some felt that way, the culture of the school was very conservative, and still is today. More so since Sylvia Rousseau left when [the culture] was more progressive in every respect. Now I think the faculty are scared to speak up.OT:

TCLA: Did your school’s curriculum encourage students to draw upon the knowledge that they brought with them to school?

OT: Like I said, bilingual, bicultural experiences were not valued. It was like censorship by omission, because they never talked about valuing Latinos or African Americans. Whenever you heard of African Americans in history class, you just heard of slavery. It was mentioned that Latinos’ or Mexicans’ land was taken and that they were impacted by colonization. But in terms of positive contributions that people make, it was a rare, accidental class discussion, not planned. I never experienced a teacher actually putting something in their lesson plan that made people feel that they were valuable, that they made contributions to society.

TCLA: Did adults at your school openly communicate concern for equal schooling?

OT: It is pretty evident, growing up and living in Santa Monica, that there are disparities in education. White and more affluent students get better schooling and go to Lincoln Middle School, while low income and students of color go to John Adams Middle School. Similarly, affluent students attend Franklin Elementary versus Will Rogers where I went to school. This correlates to who is in advanced placement courses and who is at the continuation school. People know that there are disparities, but I never heard of a teacher addressing them. I never heard of adults trying to end or even challenge those disparities. That was really unheard of. When you know that there is inequality, and aren’t trying to resist or change that inequality, you are following the status quo and participating in the inequality. And following the status quo means inequality for people of color. That is what people pretty much chose to do. You risk a lot: being marginalized by other faculty; being seen as a single-issue person; being seen as anti-white.

In this city the power is not held by people of color. The culture of politics in this city is one of fear and retaliation for trying to defend people of color or bringing up issues of race. If you bring up issues of race, all of sudden you are the bad guy, accused of using the race card. The person who reveals racism is many times inappropriately called a racist.

TCLA: Tell us how this culture of power plays out in the school.

OT: I think it’s just inherent within the system. College educated parents who go to the counselors and advocate for their students , are going to get serviced. Sort of the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Many times it’s a cultural problem because Latino parents who come from Mexico give up their children to the public school system. Many parents are OK with their kids being disciplined physically. In Mexico that’s the culture of schooling. So Mexican parents are at a disadvantage with this type of system because they don’t know how to advocate, they don’t know the channels of communication or power dynamics within school culture. And that makes it very difficult for them to be effective advocates for their children. Unfortunately, we don’t have a lot of parent involvement because of language and cultural barriers. My mom went to a PTA meeting one time and she never went back because she couldn’t speak English. Now we are starting to see bilingual liaisons, parent liaisons. We’re starting to see Bilingual Advisory Committees. You now have forums for parents to participate. This is a new thing. This just didn’t exist when I went to school.

TCLA: Do teachers use different cultural traditions as examples in classroom instruction?

OT: In elementary school I remember celebrating Cinco de Mayo. It was just a fundraising opportunity for the school, but it was still good. As a Mexican child it was something that I could relate to. Cinco de Mayo was the best time for me, of all the activities we had at school, the most fun. But we didn’t experience anything in the curriculum; we didn’t talk about different Chicano Studies oriented material or Black Studies or even anything that was more progressive. We just followed the textbooks with their Euro-centric information. Now there is a little bit more. We have a Latino literature class, Chicano Literature, and African American Literature. At the high school, we acknowledge Cesar Chavez Day. There is more now than there was before, but it’s still not an integral part of the curriculum and not institutionalized to the point that all students experience [the other cultures]. So we are better in our district than we ever were, but we still have a long way to go.

TCLA: How would you know if schools were doing a good job respecting and validating students’ cultures and language?

OT: The best way would be to conduct a survey. If 30% of the population is Latino, than they should make up only 30% of the drop outs or 30% of expulsions and suspensions. There should be proportional representation in the good and in the bad. So 30% of advanced placement students would be Latino. That’s just being reasonable. To me, a big sign is in the data of disparity. When you start looking at disparities in expulsions, suspensions, and drop out rates you realize that it is not just numbers, but kids. [The disparities] get translated to feelings of inferiority. But schools don’t survey themselves on hard issues. Imagine a survey that said, “Have you ever experienced racism from teachers on campus?” That would be one way to find out how students are feeling. However, most schools want to protect themselves from that kind of information. It’s very appropriate for high schools to interview and survey alumni to find out how they were prepared to succeed in the workplace, four year universities, or a community college. Interviews or focus groups could get that information.

TCLA: What should be done to achieve equal schooling?

OT: We first need to have a solution-based dialogue addressing institutionalized racism in public schools. If we can’t have an honest discussion on the root cause of the inequality, then we can’t begin to think about how to put an end to it. Part of the problem is that not many teachers or administrators have the cultural capacity and training to facilitate that type of dialogue. I envision a summit on equality and education. A day long event, on a Saturday, where teachers, parents, students, administrators, school board members, would get together to look at the issue, to talk about it, to break into workshops, so that we could understand it. We would also be able to see what type of data is missing, and to develop plans to address institutionalized racism. People are scared of that word or that idea--institutionalized racism. They don’t understand racism now. Once it was easy, you could point at it. We have a whole generation that never went through the marches, the pickets of the 60s and 70s. We have to do a lot of educating to give people the tools to discuss racism. I heard at a school board meeting the other day, a young Latina talking about Olympic Continuation School. She said “We have no racism at our school.” And then she said that at Santa Monica High School there is a lot of racism. Here is a Latina that is in a continuation school, where 62% of the student body is Latino, where Latinos are only 27% of the entire population in our school district, and she is saying that there is no racism. The mere fact that she ended up at Olympic is racist, but she couldn’t see that. She was confused, thinking that “racism” only means that someone stereotypes you. Racism means that people have power over you. There are power dynamics at play. People without power are mostly people of color. And the result of people of color not having that power is that they get thrown the crumbs.

TCLA: And what do you recommend to students and parents who are interested in joining the struggle for equality?

OT: I think they have to organize. They have to participate in teach-ins and educate themselves. The first step is to understand the history of racism in our country and public schools. They must start dialoging with others. I believe strongly that if people start talking about their problems together, eventually they are going to start talking about solutions. Provide forums for people and the solutions will come. And then, giving them the tools to exercise leadership will sustain their activism. A lot of the problem is that people can’t sustain the long and complicated work. We protested suspensions and expulsions, and it took us almost a year working with the school district to come up with a policy and that policy is still insufficient to address the problem that we revealed. We realize that change is marginal, but change happens in increments. We are not going to see radical reform until the conditions are ripe for people to become so angry that they would rather not participate in the system, sort of like the blowouts where students ended up walking out of school. And I don’t think that the conditions are that bad in our school district, but they could get worse. Sometimes I’m surprised that other communities are not up in arms with the problems that they face in their schools. So we do need a movement, and the movement needs to come from the bottom up. The student movement is where I put my hope. A well-educated and organized student movement can create more change than anything else.